i'm watching apple and apple acts horribly. i was on the -- i use the new apps this of the woods, as long as apple is going down, we can't sustain a rally. i'm jim cramer, see you tomorrow. hey, larry, what are you looking at? stocks jumped 78 points because imf manufactures says no recession. we're starting something new on the kudlow report tonight, for the next 30-plus days, every day until the election day, we're going to bring the kudlow caucus together, they're the best minds in business and politics and tonight all cnbc contributors. our top story this evening, just two days until the first debate. romney is totally debate fit in

my opinion. he is in fighting shach after demolishing ten opponents in 20 debates. mr. obama on the other hand, he's a bit doughy, i don't think he's in shape for this. and by the way, just minutes ago, north korea accused the united states of plotting to attack it as a steppingstone to dominate asia and has used the word nuclear war. well, how does president obama plan on handling these nut jobs? let me tell you that wednesday's debate, romney is going to broaden his message to include foreign policy. plus we have a surprise increase in the ism manufacturing report.

plus again bernanke defends his debt plan. he's enabling the obama treasury to sell trillions of dollars in deficits. hundreds of mexicans are involved in the fast and furious. this is a terrible story, hundreds of mexicans may be involved. should attorney general holder be fired immediately over this new information? the ism signals no recession, that's good. but is the obama-bernanke qe stimulus plan going to bail out the president in this election and what about down the road, does it give us a huge inflationary bubble? lee munson, he's chief investment officer of a port folio. you have got the feds blowing smoke and water and money at the stock market.

we did have a good manufacturing report today, i like that because that's good for america. a lot of stuff that's not so good like jobs or unemployment. are you a bull or a bear? do you believe the market's going to go up or down? >> i believe it's going to go up, but the ism report, earlier this year we had bad job numbers and the market could lose steam going into the election, job numbers started to pick up all of a sudden, this manufacturing thing has been put to rest and it's going to alou us to focus more on this election. >> are you going to rich through october as a bull? october is a tricky month, there's a bad history behind it. >> i have got an uncle who's accommoda accommodating. and he's going to flood the system. and if i was the incumbent right now i would be very, very pleased and send him a big gift basket. >> can i ask you a question about this very important point?

it may be that the fed is not political. it may be that mr. bernanke is not political. but all the federal reserve governors in washington on the board are obama appointees and they are all easy money, big pump priming, lord knows some of them were involved in fiscal policy, those big spenders, does that influence and affect your thinking about these matters? >> certainly the people in washington and the people selected by the president, they're democrats, they probably believe in a lot easier monetary policy. but i think the story of this qe forever, is it took a highly for bernanke to sort of make the case, slowly build the case that we need to have an open ended bond buying program. so it certainly wasn't a walk, people weren't jumping out of their chairs to embrace this. but bernanke, as an

institutionalist, doesn't want it viewed as a political thing. very worried about this audit. >> is this part of the obama re-election campaign? i know it's an answer nobody wants to hear, but answer it. all the governors of the federal reserve board. this republican ben bernanke who preceded obama recognizes one very visible thing, the obstruction that's going on in congress renders the fiscal policy -- and you recognize that there's outright obstruction going on in congress that stops any fiscal policy, what are you going to do? >> what policy? >> it's the only tool left. >> i talk to republicans all the time. i'm a reporter, they're really thinking of this as a political issue. this is a stimulus pae f obama and obama and the a

republicans should be embracing this. >> romney has said that he opposes this -- romney has also said that he will not reappoint ben bernanke. there's not a lot of sympathy for bernanke inside that campaign or the gop, that interests me a lot. i'm asking a difficult question, i don't think there's a direct -- i'm not saying that bernanke is deliberately doing qe-3, because probably it won't work in the next six weeks anyway. >> it hasn't worked up until now. >> the federal reserve is like the supreme court, it's now controlled by left wing democrats. >> here's what i think, this is buy this is so important. bernanke is not going to be there forever. i don't think he wants another term. but i think we have seen a fundamental shift in federal reserve, this is now how the fed is going to operate in the

future, where they're going to choose some sort of target and they're going to shoot for that target, they're going to buy bonds. this is not the same federal reserve. >> let me go back to lee. lee, let me just ask you this, is there some people say there's an inflationary bubble coming, that this unprecedented pump priming by the fed, and i will add to that, indirectly, the fed is financing the deficits, indirectly, they're selling the deficits to the banks and the fed's buying it from the banks. this is a bit like argentina, it's a bit like latin america. is there an inflationary bubble coming? >> i don't think so and here's the bottom line, we can't get industry, the manufacturers, the folks that want to borrow this money, we can't get them to take on projects. i do think the politicalization of wall street right now, the ceos don't want to invest

because they don't know about the tax cuts. but we have trillions of dollars that is ready to get into money flow. we need the money to get higher velocity and they're not doing it because they can't get a return on their investment. >> what's romney going to stay in the debate tomorrow to really articulate -- >> he's not going to be able to say those trillions can -- >> here's what romney said, to the extent that there's been any recovery at all, to the extent that there's been any economy growth at all, it's been -- whatever we have had has been completely funded -- remember what obama said, i'm going to build a new foundation. it's built on easy money and borrowing. >> the only argument, the only argument that romney and the republicans have is look how terrible things are, they're the america lose crowd. >> that's their only argument. >> so guess what, bright signs in the market you indicated today.

bright signs in manufacturing. it couldn't possibly be because of good public policy. >> you realize this year's worse than last year, right? >> i know you're an obama insider. >> no, i'm an outsider. >> does president obama understand the federal reserve? the reason i ask is does he know what bernanke's doing? the reason i ask this is that most people only recognize a third to a half of the intelligence reports. >> he's too good for that. most people have reported that he's only gotten and he got it online through his ipad. do you think he understands, do you really think he understands what's going on in the federal reserve? >> i do. any about the operations of the white house, if i get a little kind of in the weeds with you guys here. >> not too much. >> they have a council of economic advisors, they've got the domestic policy council.

is obama really going to be able to articulate a defense on fiscal policy. i haven't heard him give any speech where he seems to be in the weeds on this. >> i thought he was a tough campaign strategist. >> now, look, if he takes my advice, which he won't do. i would talk about the following. i have a bill that all kinds of economists say would create at least a million jobs, congress won't touch it. >> i think that we haven't answered the funnel eed the fun question that -- if romney gets into this pro business thing, are we going to have inflation like your venezuelan idea? >> i don't care much about venezuela, although it looks like what's his name is going to

lose, chavez is going to lose. i do remember argentina having been down there several times in in the 1990s, you buy all these bonds, you have a triple digit inflation rate. lee munson, thanks. >> i'm a bull, it's okay to be a bull. >> all right, the kudlow caucus is staying throughout the area. here's what we're going to tackle up next, the north koreans now, they say we're planning to inthey would them. congressman peter king who chairs the house moemds committee demands the resignation of u.s. ambassador susan rice, we're going to also ask him whether attorney general eric holder must go now that dozens more guns have been found and hundreds more deaths have been caused by those guns in the fast and furious debacle. the real losers in this was mexico. it's an incredible story and it gets worse and worse, mr. king is going to join me later.

up next, the obama care supreme court? a they are back on the court with blockbuster cases. free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. none of this bernanke stuff, i can't stand it. we'll be right back, more to come. mike rowe here at a ford tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee... affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. buy four select tires, get a $60 rebate. use the ford service credit credit card, get $60 more. that's up to $120. where did you get that sweater vest?

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the obama foreign policy is unraveling literally before our eyes on our tv screens. >> two days before the first presidential debate, the romney campaign looks to capitalize on president obama's foreign policy stumble. governor romney blasted the president in this "wall street journal" op-ed published today outlining romney's latest vision. and new saber rattling at the u.n. with new accusations that the u.s. is preparing for another war. here now is the chair of the house homeland security committee peter king and former secretary of state williamson. peter king, welcome back, i

want -- peter, i want to switch gears, i don't mean to be rude or anything. but the revelations today by una vision, that we have found 300 more dead mexicans as a result of fast and furious gun traffic and that 16 kids peter congress were found dead at this party just across the border. i just find this incredible, i find this eric holder story justice department incredible and i want to know where you think president obama is, this has become a horror story, much more than anybody thought possible. >> it really has and for the longest time the administration was denying, thanks to darrell issa who got to the bottom of it with his committee. the fact is it turned out to be a lot worse than even chairman issa thought it was going to be. the whole administration of

justice has been terrible in the start, were it's the 911 trials in manhattan, whether he was going after the cia interrogators and obviously the fast and furious, the way that was totally mishandles and that was the words used when talking about the debts of the border patrol agent and the deaths of so many mexicans because of it. i don't believe he should stay on as attorney general, he should step down. but the president will stand by him until the end because they seem to have a commitment to each other. >> i know you called for the resignation of ambassador susan rice and so forth, but this new information we got from unavision is absolutely horrifying. >> 16 kids died as a result of gun traffic that slow walked its way over the border. it figures, right, the mexicans

are the ones who are going to take most of the burden of this because they're going over to mexican. is obama really in charge of his own justice department? >> i think eric holder has some kind of a hold on president obama, he's been very accide independent from the start. obviously he should have stepped down, he should have resigned. i'm a person that does not believe in resignations, i think a president should be entitled to have his own people. but when you have eric holder and susan rice, two different situations both demanding accountability and i think both of them should resign, yes. >> i want to switch gears and come back to the main chance here, the issue is whether mr. romney, governor romney is going to inject foreign policy leadership into wednesday's debate. there's enormous speculation, some of it fueled by his op-ed

piece in "the wall street journal" that blasted the president. i know the debate is about the economy, but it's also about leadership, do you reckon governor romney will put foreign policy into that debate. >> all this month you're going to have a contrast on the economy and foreign policy. what chairman o'ryan said is the unraveling of the obama foreign policy. the set backs, the killing in the middle east of an american ambassador. a break in our relationship with our most important ally in the region, and in soyria, over 30,000 people are dead. president obama thinks strength is provocative and history teaches us that weak is provocative. and we're weak overseas as we have seen our defense capabilities decrease and as the

president hasn't stood up, with resolution for our values. so, yes, leadership is the overriding issue and it plays both foreign policy and on the economy. >> the question is chairman peter king, come back to you. do you think mr. romney should put this foreign policy leadership quotient or lack thereof into wednesday night's debate. i mean there's economic policy quotient that's going to be very important on leadership, what about foreign policy? >> yeah i think the lack of leadership in foreign policy shows itself in domestic policy. the president needs to be the president. he needs to be able to guide the nation, you can't do one without the other. if he has a policy of appeasement in foreign policy, that's going to bleed over into domestic policy. i would think that it's a very legitimate issue to raise, the

whole issue of presidential leadership, the commander in chief and trying to lead the nation during very desperate economic times. if you're not a courageous commander in chief, you're not going to be able to generate confidence in the country to follow you on your economic domestic policy. >> i think that paul ryan is right, i think the security apparatus, at least as regards the middle east, the intelligence apparatus, at least as regards to the middle east in team obama as an administration, i think it's broken down. why the heck would they send susan rice around to fife news stations? what point is there? even if she had half the information or if she had all the information, it's all politics now and it looks like the professional operation, peter king, i give you the last word on this, has broken down. >> it has, the whole intelligence operation, what susan rice did, what the justice department was distort the information they had been given.

it would take a way from the issue that that consulate was not properly protected. that should have been protected much more strongly than it was. the failure by the administration, but it's reflective as vanessa williams said, he's talking about iraq, he's talking about iran, he's talking about syria and libya. and our closest ally, israel. >> has the security apparatus broken down elsewhere? that is an important question. i mean we're not going to know, they're not going to investigate themselves. nobody in the white house wants to tell the truth about anything right now related to this. but in your judgment, having served there, having served in those areas, do you think security has broken down throughout the middle east region? >> we have no effective strategy, no foreign policy that makes sense. security's broken down and the president, instead of meeting with world leaders as american presidents have done for decades at the u.n., met with whoopie

goldberg and then left town. an american ambassador goes to las vegas to raise money. it's a misguided approach where politics is come night american interests are compromised. >> next up on kudlow, american airlines has two instances of loose seats mid flight. loose seats? full details of that coming up next. hmm, it says here that cheerios helps lower cholesterol

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well, i have never heard of an aircraft making an unscheduled landing because an entire row of seats broke loose, but it happened to american airlines twice in three days. good evening, jackie. >> good evening to you, larry. in both casings the flights landed at jfk and there were no injuries, but both planes remain at jfk pending further investigation. the faa said that both aircraft had undergone maintenance where the seats were removed and reinstalled. and new york state's attorney general fileded suit against j.p. morgan chase alleging widespread fraud and mortgage backed security sales issued by

bear stearns before it collapsed in 2008. >> it's obvious, everybody knows that, that's why i don't understand this, let's just beat up on banks some more and then they'll never issue any credit again in my lifetime. now let's move on to the next hot topic, team romney needs to stay on the more take home pay middle class tax cut message and i think vice presidential candidate paul ryan has been listening to a few things i have had to say. take a watch. >> growth tax reform, it cuts tax rates by 20%, more take home pay for the middle class. that right there creates about 7 million jobs. >> sit enough, though? does mitt romney get it? our kudlow congress is going to come back in session and see if

nick can make the break through.

welcome back to the kudlow

report, i'm larry kudlow, in this half hour, hold your breath. if bush tax cuts are not extended, watch those popular home short sales being stopped short. that's very important, could cause a wave in foreclosures and another wave in the journey turn in housing. and if that doesn't scare you, it's the first monday in october. and the key issues this year, affirmative action, same sex action, will the john roberts supreme court continue to reshape the country in a liberal or conservative direction? that's what we need to know. 36 days remaining until the election, sometime for some tough love on tax policies. paul ryan appeared on fox news sunday to talk taxes. i thought ryan did rather well, take a listen. >> our pro growth tax reform, it cuts taxes by 20%, higher take

home for the mid class, that right there creates about 7 million jobs. it's not what deductions are in the tax code, but it's who gets them. and don't forget that the higher income people will have a disproportionate amount of the loopholes that they use. >> for somebody who didn't cut taxes in his convention speech in tampa--when mr. ryan was asked to give the math on the tax cuts, here's what he spochbtded. >> i don't have the -- it would take me too long to go through all of the math. >> all right, so why not use some specific math examples. let's go back to the kudlow caucus, we have good friend david costa and jim patakokus i want to go to you first. if someone asked me the numbers about the romney tax cuts, i would say, heck, in a middle class family, earning $130,000,

a cop and his wife who's a teacher, would get about $11, 0 $11,000, $12,000 tax cuts. shouldn't romney and paul use figures like that? >> i think the problem is that they from the very beginning said this is going to be a revenue neutral tax cut. which brings you to which tax rates you -- they're going to scale back. it would saves $10,000 for this couple. how are you going to pay for it? aren't you going to take away some of the deductions. this country has two problems. we're going to cut taxes, we also have a debt problem and no could country in the world has ever gotten out of its debt problems like that. >> the benjamin netanyahu red lined and said no middle class tax reduction t upper income tax

deduction is gone, that's good, in turn for a lower rate. but it's a red line. >> and the business tax rates, they said they were going to get rid of that, they were going to low the rate. focus on that. >> so your guy, president obama does not have a middle class tax cut, not one bit. he doesn't have anything to say on that. >> larry that's totally false. he said keep the bush tax cuts. >> that's not his tax cut, that's george bush's tax cut. >> he preserved it once and he can preserve it again. ryan-romney ticket, they're doing damage to their own brand here. paul ryan comes out and says i'm going to tell the truth, i'm the guy that's going to talk numbers, i'm the guy who knows what's going on here, and then to say i can't really explain this to you. >> paul ryan -- they can pay for these budget take overs. they are assuming dynamic budgets. >> i love that, it's called

supply side. here's what i love to do. if you believe in dynamic budgets, answer me this. hold on guys, let me get this out. dynamic scoring in a budget. if you agree with this, i'll fall over in this chair, every dollar you pay in head start, 20 years from now saves you in prison costs. >> this is a simple political question, obama uses the bush middle class cuts, but that's just an extension of what george w. bush put in place. what romney is saying, he's going to up the ante from here. why doesn't mitt romney make that case? >> you saw romney go almost halfway, he talked about the tax cut, but he has to go back to that reagan model and talk about

this and talk about that take home pay. they have to have an idea of what they're getting in a law. that's so important for milt romney in a debate. he has to bring people, he has to bring heart to supply side politics and that's what happened. this is the most important day in mitt romney's life, there's no question, david's going to remind us that obama is leading in the polls, this is really make or break. do you think romney will do it? do you expect to hear a sharp, clear message on lowering middle class tax rates, and do you think he'll do it? and a pro growth package. >> i these he'll make a passioned plea for the economic tax cuts he's already talked about. i don't think he's going to pound home that message. i think paul ryan did. maybe you'll see more from paul ryan in the vice presidential debate. i think he's going focus on regulation and all that stuff.

>> let me ask you, a built of a warning to you. >> i will not gloat. i will never gloat. >> you may be right and that's okay. romney took a machete and lifted newt gingrich's head off. and later on romney took maybe a different cleaner machete and took rick santorum's head off. obama on the other hand has been surrounded by doughy psycho fans, he hasn't been in any hand to hand combat. he hasn't had any debating experience, he's gone soft. that's why romney might just pull a real upset here. >> i'm not playing a game, i'm being very honest with you, i these president obama does great in front of the teleprompter, and i'm biting my nails over this. now that having been said -- >> he's likable. >> but this notion of national polling numbers is a farce. this election is going to be

decided in the swing states. obama has a nine point lead in ohio? you guys are suggesting that the debate is going to change everything. >> to larry says romney has a machete and he's taking heads off in the primary debate. you say there's a small group of undecided voters that romney still needs to capture. i'm not hearing from the romney people that he needs to be that aggressive. if he's too forceful, he may risk alienating some of the people david is is talking about. >> really, really go head to head. for example, there was a lot of talk that mr. romney was going to fact check president obama as obama made false statements, as obama always does make false statements. >> oh, come on. >> do you think romney will fact check him or is that too cheeky or snarky in a debate? >> romney has been preparing for the debate. he knows the issues, he knows the data. what they're trying to do is get romney to pull back and go back

to that big vision. >> what vision? where is it? >> tax breaks, 20% across the board. >> that was beautiful the way you got that out. hold on. you can see the whole presidential debate here on cnbc wednesday night, coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. here on the kudlow report here on the debate. and i will be participating all night. the next three months after the activists on the supreme court turned left and upheld obama care, now judge john roberts is tanned, rested, ready and is back. the next question is will the supremes going to the right or get back to the left side of the street. all that next on kudlow. [ male announcer ] the 2013 smart comes with 8 airbags, a crash management system and the world's only tridion safety cell

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[ male announcer ] the exceedingly nimble, ridiculously agile, tight turning, fun to drive 2013 smart. ♪ . >> three months after supreme court justice moved to the right and passed obama care. pete williams has some details. >> reporter: larry, this is shaping up to be a court term dominated by civil rights beginning with a case that will be argued next week on affirmative action, colleges

nationwide use it believing that a more racially diverse campus provides a better education. the court gave a green light to that practice seven years ago, but since then has become more skeptical. sandra day o'connor who has since left the court. the court will almost certainly hear a challenge to the voting rights act. the section that says states have to get federal permission before they make any changes to their elections if those states have a history of discrimination. the states say the map that's used to determine how they need to get that clearance is out of date and three years ago the court agreed with that. and almost certainly it will take up the challenge to the defense of marriage act. that's the act signed by president clint preside president clinton that says that -- >> many thanks, nbc's pete williams.

the justices are back at work, 37% of americans still have a negative view of the court and i think it's because the court unexpectedly played politics, feared left and sanctioned obama care, it's a 25-year high by the way on that unpopularity. chief justice roberts is going to steer the court left or right? what do you think robert costa on this point? does mr. justice roberts move back into his natural majority of conservatives? or is he going to play some more interesting games as he did with obama care? >> i think chief justice roberts can sew a big question mark into his robes. i have no idea after that obama care decision. i'm watching justice kennedy, he's the guy that's been flip-flopping right or left. >> this is interesting, on affirmative action t university of texas now is allocating

racial quotas to be a tiny point of affirmative action. >> but they have lowered the amount that they have given to this racial point. to me that is exactly right. i just think that's sensible, not conservative or liberal. how do you these the court's going to rule on the texas affirmative action? >> i think on the court, justice robert roberts is going to go back to his conservative position. i think his vote will preserve the credibility of the court based on the politics of each justice how they were going to vote. >> you think the court is going back to the right? >> i think justice roberts is, i agree with this observe vegas over here, it may go back to where kennedy is the swing vote. but on this particular issue, on affirmative action, also on the voting rights act. >> this is a state's rights issue. why voting rights, voter id, why isn't this a state's right

issue? >> it absolutely should be. and it also should be one that everybody cares about. we have had a lot of close elections in the past several years, a lot of people these they were stolen. look at the state of pennsylvania. why is it so hard for republicans to win the state of of pennsylvania? because republican votes are stolen by the tens of thousands in every election. >> they vote dead democrats. >> a lot of resurrections going on. >> naacp soez there have been more ufo sightings in the united states than -- >> i'm from chicago. i know full well how these things work. >> democrats are o' -- it's true, there's not a lot of studies that show an enormous amount of fraud. republicans and democrats are working with state democrats to

make sure that voting is better. why. >> why do they oppose the driver's license? >> if you have to have a driver's license or a picture id to do anything in this country, i don't know why voting is different. some dark storm clouds forming over the economy, a new bump in the road for housing and reports that your payroll tax is going to rise in 2013, no matter who's elected. democrats and republicans want to end the payroll tax cut. then there's something called economic patriotism. now we need a little bit more... a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions... because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't beat them. [ giggles ] ohh! you got something huh? whoa... [ male announcer ] humana understands the value of spending time together that's a lot of work getting that one in!

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so if nothing's done, the bush tax cuts are going to expire at the end of this year and with them so will short sales which has been a big driver of the housing recovery. cnbc's diana olrick has the story. >> short sales are when your lender allows your home to be sold for less than the amtz you owe the mortgage. short sales surpassed foreclosures last spring. the government has a short sale insentive program and banks want to do them because they get credit for them in the $25 billi billion. so in 2007 congress passed the mortgage forgiveness debt relief act.

it was extended through this year, but it's about to expire. now thanks to the fiscal cliff, these types of tax relief extensions not so popular and this one is stuck in congress. should the tax exemption go away, millions of troubles borrowers could go to foreclosure. >> thanks very much. let's go right to stevemeister, he's the managing partner, he is a real estate expert. what happens here? how bad is this going to be? if the bush tax cuts are not extended and the short sales are of course a taxable event, what's going to happen, are we going back to foreclosures and more price collapses? >> i think if it doesn't get extended as part of the election year politics you are going to see a sharp dropoff in short sales and on on the of that the whole asset class is drying off as amatter. but people are not going to want to take the hit of the

forgiveness of debt with a short sale and in the case of foreclosure, they can kind of push that off because the bank at least has a theoretical right -- >> part of the hit on the short sale is a tax hit because the irs regards the debt forgiveness as income and income has to be taxed. now the bush tax cuts specifically prevented that. are we going to see for example home prices which have been rising at 5% to 10% lately drop another 10%or 15% or 20% because the markets are going to be drowned with foreclosures because the short sales are cooked? >> i believe, larry, the reason we're seeing that price rise you just referenced is because of the mix of short sales or reo foreclosure sales. in other words the distress sales have gradually gone down so it appears like there's a price rise and that might continue as the short sales are

contracting due to the loss of the tax program. >> all right, interesting. there's another tax coming. this is interesting. front page "new york times" today, one of the lead stories, democrats and republicans are happy if the payroll tax cut completely expires. what does that mean for the economy? this is a bad fiscal tax cliff. >> listen, i'm not a big fan of the temporary tax cuts. i believe in lowering rates, permane permanently, deeply, that gets them the worst behaviors, invest more, tax more. i'm worried now that not only are we going to have higher taxes but the president's going to look at what's going on in france, maybe the tax rate should be 75% instead of 40%. economic patriotism should be the economic patriotism act. it will be 75%. >> let's keep it on topic, we're talking about the payroll tax

cult which was done to stimulate payroll and consumption. >> and did nothing. >> i'm sorry, i actually see growth in certain sectors. we started the show talking about how good manufacturing -- you can't have it both ways. >> this has been the two worst recovery years in the history of the united states of america. >> it's stopped contracting. if you believe, i don't, jimmy does, but if you believe the payroll tax cuts stimulate consumption, what are you going to do when it's gone? nancy pelosi was quoted in the "new york times" says she doesn't want to extend it. nancy pelosi, your hero. >> here's the thing, larry, payroll taxes paid for social security, they paid for medicare. if you care about the solvency of these programs as apparently every candidate does, then you say to yourself, all right the tax cut can't last forever, in

fact i have talked personally to people who advocate for a living social and they're not going to support these programs. >> medicare, and social security. >> the reason why larry says democrats and republicans support this -- everybody session the same thing you have to actually protect the solvency of social security. the income on payroll taxes stops at $110,000. >> it's a flat tax. >> it's actually a regressive tax. if you earn $500,000, you're not paying any payroll tax. it's ridiculous. >> assessing something you can't hardly assess, but this is when they all come back after the election, what in the hell is going to happen? how do you read it right now? what are the leaders saying? >> it all comes down to the presidential election, every party is waiting to see what happens and no one really knows,

it's going to take real leadership. if anything's going to get done, it's going to be mitch mcconnell. >> this president's going to go over the fiscal cliff. >> what's going on? big tax cuts? big tax -- >> coming up next, my pal steve meister. are you expecting just as an ordinary person who writes the occasional column and follows the politics, do you think we're going have a big smacking huge tax hike after the election, do you think the so-called tax cliff we're all going to fall into it? >> we're at this fiscal cliff, obama is going to engage in this class warfare his entire four years and he has sees it as taking from the rich to give to the poor. although it's obviously just transgenerational stuff he's

engaged in. romney has got to come out with significant, permanent tax cuts. that's the supply side. >> i remember the '80s, i remember the 1980s. >> you will see lots of them coming up, david goodfriend, robert costa and having them rent apartments in new york city. that's it for this evening's show. i'm kudlow, thanks for watching. [ male announcer ] at scottrade,

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